Last Post on A & P Arms

Update: I forgot to mention: The A & P Management assured me that they don’t employ any “hit men”. I was actually disappointed about that because I was going to ask them if they had any job openings in that department. Oh well. Maybe Superior Pawn and Gun is hiring for their goon squad.

Update 2: Mr. Savage tells his side of the “disgruntled customer” story on the thread. Reading the story has the ring of truth to me and I have no doubt that his version of events is the truth as he sees it. I return to the point that he destroyed his own credibility when he didn’t mention his issue with A & P BEFORE he started leveling unrelated charges against them, when he started issuing threats, when he started calling people names, when he made contradictory statements. Let’s just say that, when someone comes clean this late in the game, I have no choice but to take their statements with a grain of salt. But the information is now out in the open. Potential customers can read it all, form their own opinions and make up their own minds; which, by the way, is all I ever wanted in the first place. Was it really necessary to go through all the theatrics and drama to get here???

Update 3: This post has gotten some traffic from a link on a forum. For those interested, here is the previous post where this whole thing began…to get the whole story you have to read that one (and the comment thread) too.


For those of you who have been following this story, I’ve already revealed that I spoke to the A & P Management. Basically, they have been following the inflammatory posts by Mr. Savage on and were led to my humble blog as a result. The management e-mailed me in response to my last post to basically tell me that they appreciated the fact that I hadn’t just taken Mr. Savage’s accusations at face value and had attempted to verify them. They invited me to call if I wanted to hear their side of the story.

I called and spoke with them at length about the entire sequence of events.

I was planning to verify what parts of their story I could by contacting the VOSH office (which, incidentally, never returned my call) again, and the BBB and, if necessary, issuing Freedom of Information Act requests to them in order to see the original documentation and verify or discredit the story as told by A & P. However, the rants and tirades by Mr. Savage have completely eliminated any shred of credibility he may have had so I’m not even going to bother with that.

One of the responders on tracked down the BBB complaint which verified that portion of A & P’s version of events. It perfectly matched what they described. I have to believe that there is no reason for them to lie about the VOSH investigation and report as those also are a matter of public record. Mr. Savage has repeatedly misrepresented himself, his role in this entire mess, has failed to address ANY of the concerns raised about his charges or motivations, has issued veiled and not-so-veiled threats, resorted to childish insults and name calling, etc. etc. etc. I see no need to expend any more effort on discrediting someone who so effectively discredits himself at every turn.

In other words, I have seen little to lend credibility to Mr. Savage’s version and his duplicity from the beginning undermines even that small amount that he may have once had. On the other hand, I got nothing but friendly, open cooperation from A & P. The little checking that has been done has verified their version of events without question.

Therefore, I cannot vouch for the veracity of everything presented by A & P, and am only presenting this information in order to provide A & P an opportunity to counter the negative publicity by getting their side of the story out. I make no claims that this information is the unadulterated truth as I have not verified it. However, in my opinion, the credibility edge definitely swings in favor of A & P arms. They were at all times respectful, professional, open and unevasive (I think I just made that word up, but you know what I mean).

So, with the disclaimers out of the way. Here is the story from A & P’s standpoint.

Mr. Savage desired to make a purchase of a firearm. The demo model of the firearm he selected for purchase was on the shelf equipped with a laser sight, however the pricing posted was for the firearm without the sight. When he received a firearm without the sight, he claimed “bait and switch”. A & P freely admitted that they had made a mistake in placing a demo with the sight on the shelf and they attempted to make the customer happy. They couldn’t just give away a laser sight, but since they had made the mistake they sold him the firearm with the sight installed at the price listed for the firearm, plus their cost for the sight. They made no money off the sale of the installed sight.

It is unclear to me why, but Mr. Savage apparently accepted this compromise at the time but later had second thoughts. I’m not sure why he wouldn’t just refuse to accept delivery of a firearm if it was not what he wanted at the price he wanted…that’s how most of us do it…but he apparently accepted the firearm at the time. What followed was a back and forth between A & P and the customer that fomented the BBB complaint linked to above. The BBB determined that A & P did everything within reason to satisfy the customer but Mr. Savage was determined not to be satisfied unless he got a free laser sight. No compromise was acceptable. After a series of unfounded claims and complaints, the BBB finally closed the case. They determined that A & P had satisfactorily resolved the issue but that the customer never acknowledged the resolution. Reviewing the document linked above reveals that A & P’s version of events perfectly mirrors the complaint resolution on the BBB Report.

It seems the Mr. Savage was not satisfied with the results of his BBB complaint so his next step was to file complaints with OSHA. I have not verified this but according to A & P, the items that that Mr. Savage reported to OSHA were found to be non-issues. The violations that were listed in the preliminary OSHA report that Mr. Savage has been passing around willy-nilly, were minor things discovered during the inspection that were unrelated to the initial complaint.

Again according to A & P, the only reason that Mr. Savage would’ve had to receive a copy of that initial report is because he was the complainant and OSHA is required to submit the inspection report to the complainant. They also mentioned that the proposed fines were supposed to have been redacted from the complainant’s copy but weren’t. This was an oversight on the part of OSHA, not Mr. Savage, but I’ve redacted those proposed fines on the copy that Mr. Savage sent me.

My impression when first reviewing this report was “none of these are that big of deal”. However, Mr. Savage’s contention on was:


That was not borne out at all by the report. Of the eleven citations listed on the report, eight of them were documentation or training errors.

According to A & P, during the conference alluded to on page three of the report, it came out that proper documentation and training had been conducted, but that the employee training guide had been misplaced and the employees on duty were not aware of where the proper documentation was located. Therefore, following the conference, the eleven violations were reduced to three:

-The misplaced Employee training guide
-The chemical shower was being used by the gunsmith for other purposes and was not functional for emergency use.
-Some horizontal surfaces tested positive for lead deposits.

Hardly the life threatening hazardous range conditions that Mr. Savage was attempting to infer.

I must note that there is ALWAYS lead present in a shooting range where lead ammunition is used. Every gun shop in the Hampton Roads area has had citations for lead contamination on horizontal surfaces at some point or another as I discovered while initially researching Mr. Savage’s allegations. If it surprises you that a closed building within which lead projectiles are sent hurtling through the air at high velocity only to impact upon a backstop 25 yards away has some lead present…you need to find another hobby.

According to A & P management, the abatements for the three remaining violations were put into place almost immediately. The Employee Training guide is back where it belongs, the Chemical shower is now being used as a chemical shower and they are wiping down horizontal surfaces daily to reduce lead buildup.

Basically, after speaking with A & P arms, I am right back where I started.

This entire incident seems to have stemmed from a disgruntled customer with an overly inflated sense of self-importance who had his ego bruised first by A & P Arms, and then by the BBB. Mr. Savage seems to be engaged in a harassment campaign against A & P Arms and has no true foundation for his frivolous accusations.

In short, I will not withdraw my recommendation and approval of A & P Arms and maintain that, in my limited experience, it is a reputable, professional establishment with a friendly, helpful staff.

That and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

At this point I consider this matter closed…although I’m relatively certain I haven’t heard the last from Mr. Savage.

click here for haloscan comments thread

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