The Gunpal/Gpal saga continues

Pretty much everyone should be well aware of the GPal (formerly known as Gunpal) payment service’s long standing, chronic and well documented problems.

Basically, they seem to have no problem receiving money through ACH and credit card transfers, but getting it back out can be a bit…um…problematic.

They have an entire forum area at Calguns.net dedicated to their company.  Recently, however, it’s basically turned into a place for everyone to report that they’re having exactly the same problem as everyone else.

Their Customer support is non-responsive both through e-mail or telephone and no one seems to be getting any straight answers.

If you checked any of the links above, you’ll find that either CEO Ben Cannon, or someone posting as “GPalVP” has been assuring everyone over and over and over that the problems have been fixed…but this has been going on for months now.

I am now numbered among the victims of the GPal scam.  Fortunately, the amount they owe me is much smaller than many, and I’m not the proprietor of one of the businesses that GPal has reportedly bankrupted, but it’s still pretty annoying.  I requested the $80 and change in my account to be transferred to my linked and verified bank account early in August.  On August 13, the transfer appeared on GPal’s web site as “completed” and my account balance went to 0.

As of this date, I still have not recieved payment to my bank.  How complicated is an electronic transfer to complete anyway?  I’ve been using ACH to pay my bills for going on ten years now without a single glitch.

At any rate, I signed up for an account on Calguns.net last night, and left a message on this thread* basically saying that we’ve been as patient and understanding as we can be.  It’s getting beyond that now; and so I asked if anyone had considered a class action lawsuit and suggested that it may be the best option.

*Update: the link isn’t broken per se.  They deleted the entire thread.  Covering tracks so to speak.  I have screen shots of the administrator admitting that he’d deleted posts from the thread and I’m pretty sure the thread OP has screen shots of the whole thing in pdf format.  I really don’t know what they think they’re accomplishing with the deletions, other than removing all doubt about what type of business they are running over there. /Update

Within 10 minutes, my post had been deleted.  When I tried to post another comment, I got the message to the right.

Signed up, posted a single comment (a comment that contained no accusations, no personal attacks, no name calling, no foul language, no offensive language of any kind) and was banned within ten minutes.

That’s GOT to be some kind of record.

Not only is GPal having major problems.  Not only are they refusing to admit that they are having problems.  Not only are they repeatedly misleading their customers by claiming that the problems have been fixed when they so obviously have not…they are actively deleting, and in some cases allegedly editing, forum posts to prevent people from talking about it and organizing to get some sort of satisfaction.

I was one of the early proponents of Gunpal/GPal and I’d like to say that it’s still a good company but is just experiencing some growing pains right now…but I simply cannot do that any more.

I removed the Gpal donation link from my sidebar, rescinded my recommendation to VCDL that they switch to their service and hereby offer the following warning to gun owners everywhere:

DO NOT USE GPAL…EVER.

They have demonstrated themselves to be unscrupulous and completely untrustworthy.  Not because of the technical problems…but because of their inept, incompetent and flatly dishonorable handling of the situation from the beginning.

They are simply NOT the kind of business that I would recommend entrusting your money to.  Even if they get their technical problems ironed out, their handling of this situation has led me to the conclusion that they simply cannot be trusted.

Ever.

Period.

I am going to begin looking into the possibility of a class action brought against this service.  Even people who’ve eventually gotten their money have been harmed by the delays and runaround they’ve been given.  Several small businesses have reportedly been forced to close their doors and people’s very livelihoods have been put at risk.

This is unacceptable.

If you have been a victim of Gunpal/Gpal and are interested in participating in legal action against them, please e-mail me so we can coordinate efforts.

They may be able to delete posts and stifle discussion about this on their own forum, but they can’t stop me from talking about it here.

Update: re deleting the previously discussed thread, this is just too funny.

Click to make bigger

If you don’t want to bother with the link or the image, it’s a posting to the Calguns GPal forum from “GPalVP” and opens with this gem:

In an attempt to ease some of the anger, I tried to let people post whatever they wanted again.  it is not working so we are going back to a tightly controlled GPal forum

That’s just funny right there…in an infuriating sort of way.  Allow me to provide a literal translation of what he’s REALLY saying:

“We haven’t fixed the problems and people are still having to wait months to get their money from us (assuming they get it at all).  In lieu of telling our customers what was going on and what we’re doing to fix it, out of the goodness of our hearts we decided to grant our dupes customers the privilege of saying whatever they wanted (unless you suggest a lawsuit, of course…that one we deleted immediately) on this forum we’ve so generously provided you to use since we can’t be bothered to answer the phone or respond to e-mails.

Instead of gratefully accepting this gracious and benevolent gift we have bestowed upon you, you ungrateful b*st**ds just couldn’t stop complaining about us stealing your money could you?  Well, the party’s over now kids.   You should feel privileged that we even acknowledge your presence at all.

Now, if we’ve been holding on to your money interest free for no less than six weeks, you grovel sufficiently, and post the “support ticket” number that we provided you when we began ignoring you, we MIGHT have pity upon you and gift you with the return of your money.

Otherwise: bite me sucker.”

Allow me to take this opportunity to reiterate something I said earlier:


DO NOT USE GPAL…EVER

Oh, and GPalVP? If you happen to read this post…your sig line? Here, I fixed it for you:

34 thoughts on “The Gunpal/Gpal saga continues

  1. "Complaints received by BBB concern payment and customer service issues. Complaints processed by BBB claim that 1) there are long delays in transferring funds from GPal to bank accounts, and often, GPal shows that the money was successfully transferred when no money was actually received. 2) Complaints state that when calling GPal they are unable to reach a representative and in some cases are put on hold for long periods only to have the call disconnected; emails often go unanswered.

    BBB has requested a written response to these issues but has not received one."

    When a company won't respond to the BBB, that's a pretty clear indication that there's something shady going on. As an aside, I've been on hold for 30 minutes. I'm expecting a hang-up any minute now.

  2. Here is how I do it. There has never been a gun on GB I could not pay with a personal check. Guns international, I send a cc # they send the gun. I simply can not understand why you need G pay Pal pay E pay or the others. I agree do not use them.

  3. Damn… Oleg is a principal, or at least was when I signed up for them just a month or so back. He was why I signed up. I figured if he was associated with them, it HAD to be on the up-and-up! Dang glad I haven't had time to use it yet! Excuse me while I slide over there and attempt to delete my account!

  4. Nothing has singularly divided the gun world faster or deeper than Ben Cannon, the Bernie Madoff of gun-owners.

    Here are some good folks at Cast Boolits who are not content to idly sit by–they're jumping into the fray.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=89122&page=14

    We need more people like these folks to get active, get involved and make their suspicions and facts known to the FBI, Attorney General, Federal Trade Commission and respective attorney generals of each state where a gun-owner/broker/seller has been "Cannon-ized" and is out money.

  5. I've never been able to try Gpal, since there "test deposits" to my checking account never actually appeared. Looks like I'm lucky it didn't work!

  6. I am SO happy I've never used GPal. I signed up for an account way back, when they first started, but never used it. Thank the Gods, now I never will.

  7. I've only transferred funds once through them. Glad I've never 'verified' an account through them or PP. If I have to use an online funds transfer, I'll go discreet through PP first, at least they're on the up and up. Or use snail mail and the good old money order.

    Tells me a lot about the mindset at CalGuns that they would pull the plug on that thread. They're supposed to be the 'premier' forum for Cali gunowners. Makes me wonder. I'd be interested to hear the excuse they use for pulling it.

  8. Calguns has really gone down the tubes. I'm done with them, foundation and all. The owner there is basically working for GPAL and has shown he's just as big a liar as Ben Cannon/GPAL. At this rate Paul just might make employee of the month. Hundreds of threads have been deleted and anyone who doesn't wait in line like a nice boy and beg for their money catches a ban.

    GPAL has been editing Calguns threads where people have reported back saying that they've been paid, how many days it took and offering some "closing thoughts" to read "I got all my money. Thanks GPAL!" That's apparently OK over at Calguns.

    Cast Boolits is the only place I've found straight talk on GPAL (on a forum at least). Everywhere else the mods just delete any GPAL threads.

  9. The only thing that worked for me was an IC3.gov complaint… money was outstanding nearly 40 days, lie after lie was thrown my way. Made my IC3 complaint, had my money in 3 days, perhaps a coincidence, but I tend to think not.

  10. I just registered an IC3 complaint. I'll post back here to see if what the previous poster said holds true. I've had enough waiting.

  11. Well apparently for some reason they have chosen to single us out because we are posting our experiences with GPal just like everyone else all over the internet.

    Ben Cannon just called my husband on his cell phone and threatened out right that if we didn't not stop talking about him and GPal that he is going to withhold the funds that we are currently waiting on for the Next 6 Months.

    So now he has stooped to the level of calling customers and threatening to hold their own money for 6 months.

    All I wanted was the money I processed through GPal. Nothing more and nothing less. Customers can be pushed only so far when they decide to take action through the proper authorities and I will continue to go up the chain of Command in California and further if needed to get what is rightfully ours.

    Lisa Wolf
    Elite Ammunition

  12. When I first heard of GunPal I was afraid something like this was going to happen. To make it work they really needed to have their shit together and it never quite looked good enough for me to make the switch.

  13. Began using Gpal in lieu of PayPal in the beginning of May.

    Gpal was referred to us by one of their VPs – Johnson.

    We had major issues with PayPal holding out accounts or deciding in favor of a client who stole from us so we were looking for a new and reliable fund transferring service.

    Since using Gpal in April, they’ve accepted payments from our clients without any issues. In fact, it has been very smooth on that end.

    What we noticed was that the first few transactions we withdrew from the account never arrived in our account even after 2 weeks. We had to personally contact the VP (of whom we know in real life) and ask him to please see into it.

    Long story short, this routine has happened with EVERY transaction. If we didn’t know Johnson I do not believe we would have ever received our money. A ballpark figure of the amount we’ve transferred through them is somewhere around 4-5k?

    As of late, Gpal owes us $1002.43 — it has been 6 weeks since we withdrew these funds. Johnson has been unable to help us because he has no ownership in the company. We sent out some 7-8 e-mails asking for a realistic estimate or if the funds would ever arrive–as we need the funds to pay our employees in the Philippines.

    Moreover, Gpal placed a negative $254 balance on our account with no justification. They claimed that a client disputed a transaction and that we did not provide sufficient documentation which resulted in them deciding in favor of the client. We asked them to call us to explain. Nothing. No calls.

    As far as e-mail replies. Yes, we received 2 e-mails.

    1 email saying “your funds are en route. We do answer our support line”.

    2nd email was basically them telling us they are forcing us to pay the $254 negative balance whether we like it our not- lol…

    We are lost for words. Even with the Madoff scandal, you would never think something like that would happen to you. We are assuming at this point that Gpal is running a ponzi scheme and using new funds to pay off old debt. The internet has most likely slowed down the usage of Gpal, which has resulted in them being unable to keep the scheme afloat.

    If by the end of the week our funds do not arrive, we will assume that the funds are long gone.

    if so, oh well. We will survive. Better luck next time.

  14. Began using Gpal in early May. Have had problems with them transferring funds to our account since day 1. We personally know their VP, so we've been able to get in direct contact (via 3rd degree)with the Gpal owner (though we've never personally spoken with him). As to date, we've transferred roughly $6000+ through Gpal. Receiving funds have been painfully slow and most likely impossible had we not know one of their own people. Currently, they owe us $1002.34 – we withdrew this amount 6 weeks ago. Gpal replied to us with this vague e-mail saying "your funds are en route". Honestly, wtf is that supposed to mean?! Basically they just want us to think the funds are coming, indefinitely. Seriously, seriously… Scammed big time.

  15. Aparently Ben Cannon of GPAL is calling people now telling them to STFU? I've seen it a few places. The people making the complaints are using their names and stuff. Nobody's hiding behind aliases. What's going on!!!

  16. He just left me 3 different VM on my company phone. What he said is off the charts and I have turned them over to law enforcement.

  17. Yea, they shit me out of over 350 dollars too!
    The customer got there guns and GPAL got my money….There should be a law!! I did the same thing. Had the money supposely sent to my bank account and it showed it went on the GPAL web site–al least it was deducted from the GPAL account but where it went is anybodys guess!! I'm as mad as H*!! and I ain't taking it anymore!

  18. Sad to say, it doesn;t surprise me that Kestryll over at CalGuns is shielding Ben Cannon and GPal from as much negative exposure as possible.

    CalGuns has become a cesspool and Kestryll's "head janitor" title is a proper moniker. Problem is, the toilets are backed up and he's busy censoring the GPal threads.

    I hope the "Right People" that are associated with CG soon realize that CalGuns makes all gun owners look like a bunch of nuts. And haboring Ben Cannon makes the powers that be at CG look like criminals.

    I was a member of CG for quite some time with thousands of posts. I will never return to that slime pit.

  19. I was the poster that had his post changed, when I finally received my funds. It only took a blistering 80 days.

    I just hope to read that Ben Cannon was found in the fetal position, wearing a diaper and sucking his thumb, when the authorities come for him.

  20. Coming up 30 days on the current request of funds and still no money from GPal.

    This has caused us to be down so far for 6 weeks which really pissed me off. Luckily I went to our friend's shop on Monday and ran our orders. They should be cutting me a check in the next day or so. Gee who would of thought a bank releasing the funds within 72 hours…..hmmmmmmmmm

    Although I will have to wait a couple of day for it to clear so it will bring me to the middle of next week before I can order supplies (and pray they have them in stock) and then another few days for them to get here before we can pull down and fire up the machines.

    So total time down because of the GPal **** will be about 8 weeks if not longer depending on what supplies I can get.

    But luckily I spent all day Saturday until about 2 a.m. Sunday & all day on Sunday sending out emails explaining the situation and Jay following up on the phone Monday.

    Lisa
    Elite Ammunition

  21. Gpal has been avoiding me since Aug 13th 2010. I have lost $3,224.00 over this. There is no way to contact them that they will answer. I am a small time FFL and this has hurt me big.

    Steve Kelly
    KELLYFIREARMS.com

  22. guess i am beat for $ 500+…first time I used it too…been a week no $ in my bank. has anyone tried to refund this $ and ask the person who paid you to sent it via paypal or something?

  23. Well giving an update:
    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=341885

    Well
    GPalVP posted 09-23-2010, 5:37 PM
    “All of your withdrawals have already been sent to your checking account ending in 2649.”

    I posted 09-24-2010, 9:02 AM
    Well I checked this morning and no funds yet

    So I emailed the President of our Bank a few minutes ago.
    Gotta love small town USA where everyone knows everyone, not to mention the fact his wife is my son's kindergarten teacher.
    Me
    “So this was a response from them at 5:37 P.M. 9/23/10

    All of your withdrawals have already been sent to your checking account ending in 2649.

    Do you know long this will take to get deposited into our account? And can you see anything on your end to support GPal's claim of this?”
    Bank President’s Response
    “Lisa,
    I show no deposits from GPal on 9/23/10. It is a direct deposit, which means it would be done immediately. And since you received this message after 2pm (our cut-off), I would have expected to see it come in this morning’s processing. Maybe check online later today, after 2 to see if it has dropped, otherwise, I’m not sure where the deposit is at.”

    So I will check back again after 2 and give an update to this.

    Lisa
    Elite Ammunition

  24. I have not only gotten 1 but 2 emails for charge backs from GPal today. Here is the first one. I will not post others as the only difference in the emails is the amount of money

    From:
    Date: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 1:22 PM
    Subject: GPal Chargeback Notification (Transaction ID: BA5F7ED0E4C680)
    To: orders@eliteammunition.com

    GPal Logo

    Greetings Elite Ammunition,

    You are receiving this email because your buyer for Transaction ID: BA5F7ED0E4C680 for $91.15 has filed a chargeback with their credit card company.

    Once a chargeback occurs, the money involved in the chargeback is debited from GPal right away by the credit card company. At the same time, we place a temporary hold on the same amount in your GPal account balance. A chargeback will cause the following chain reaction; The buyer's bank will pull funds from GPal's merchant bank, GPal's merchant bank will then pull the funds from GPal, finally GPal will pull the funds from the seller and assess a chargeback fee (The assessed chargeback fee is temporary until the matter has been fully resolved). Please note that if the dispute is found in favor of the seller, the disputed funds and assessed chargeback fee will be credited back to the sellers account.

    So that we can respond to the chargeback notification we need you to provide us with some information regarding this transaction, including but not limited to a tracking number, the Signature Confirmation of Delivery to a confirmed GPal address and any communication between the involved parties. We require this information immediately as the majority of chargebacks are irrevocable if we cannot respond in time. Please provide all requested information within 5 business days by replying to this email.

    If GPal and the seller win the dispute, the credit card company will reimburse GPal for the chargeback, and GPal will release funds held from the seller. Depending on the credit card company involved, this process can take up to 75 days.

    Thank you for your cooperation.

    Please visit your GPal account by clicking HERE or by copying "https://www.gpal.net/gp" (without the quotes) into your web browser.

    Kind Regards,
    The GPal Team

    GPal is an online payment processing alternative that donates a portion of the proceeds from every transaction to a Non-Profit Organization or Charity

    GPal does not discriminate based on the nature of your transaction, requiring only that the merchandise or services you buy and sell be legal. See our User Agreement for more information.
    I tried to retrace the GPal charge via their website there is no name attached to the trans #. But so conveniently I have been LOCKED OUT of my GPal account.

    But lucky for me I keep every piece of paper and every email and was able to track the customer. I have sent an email to the customer and am waiting for a response.

    I am waiting on responses from both of these customers.

    Ben Cannon you created this mess and YOU NEED TO FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Lisa Wolf
    Elite Ammunition

  25. Well I checked my account today and holy crap 2 of my 3 withdraws hit my account.

    You guys are still missing GPal Transaction ID: BA5F7ED33B1064 for $71.00.

    And this in no way changes my views on GPal.

    As I stated before it was a great idea but poorly executed.

    Lisa Wolf

  26. Gunpal or GPal.net whatever they want to call themselves is hands down the worst company I have ever dealt with. I didn't notice that my withdrawals weren't hitting my bank account for about a month. I contacted their email support and got a speedy reply that they would cut a check for all of the withdrawals. Well, that didn't happen right away and I had to contact them again about it. I did eventually get my funds, which were around $500 via a check. So I thought these guys were trying hard to get things lined out, so I check accepting payments through them and now I can't get a hold of anybody there through email or phone. They still owe me $200. Does anyone else smell class action lawsuit. I'm losing money because they are not giving me what is mine so I can re-invest it.

  27. GPAL beat me for $2,400. I don't even sell guns, I am a Travel Company. What astounds me is that none of the so called Law Enforcement agencies have done anything. Plus every time I contact them, they cannot give me any info. I'm sick of it.

    I told them to "get in their car, drive to his house and knock on his door." "They said that isn't the way they work" "I replied maybe it should be since your way is so ineffective". Why can't they tell us if he even still has our money? You would think they might ask for some proof as to where it is on our behalf.

    Frustrated!!!

  28. we processed a card for an Illinois client who bught a ring once we mailed it she did a 78.50 charge back once she got it with a signature confirmation gunpal gave her her money back and kept an additional amount totaling 113.50, she then later reversed the chargeback and she has the ring and gunpal has the money, propay stole 500.00 on us too.

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